#304275 - 22/11/2007 21:45
27" LCD; is it worth it?
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pooh-bah
Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
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I finally FINALLY got a Wii (thanks wiitracker.com, f*** off scalpers)... but I have no TV. The dusty 13" in the closet and the old 22" hand-me-down don't count. I'm considering replacing my 8 year old Nokia 445Xpro 21" CRT with a Dell 2707WFP 27" widescreen LCD monitor. The 2707 will give me component and composite input for the Wii, and the 1920x1200 resolution to natively view Wii's 1080p. But I'm not sure it's worth it. The 2707 would give me an extra 2" high by 7" wide of viewing space. But that's so wide, I'd have to turn my head left or right to see the full 23" screen width. Ok, resolve that by pushing the LCD further away from my face (instead of 16" away like the CRT). But that negates the extra size (height, at least), like having an 80" TV that you sit 20 feet away from. It's all relative. I do like it's 1920x1200. I've been running 1600x1200 for 8 years and can accept no less. Having that resolution at 27" instead of 24" (like the 2407WFP) means bigger pixels, thus bigger screen contents. Pushing the LCD further away negates that too. Maybe 27" would make DVDs look better (or remain hurt by the Pioneer DVDR drive), make Wii 1080 more enjoyable, and make my upcoming foray into Half Life 2 (once I get a new computer) look stunning at full resolution. But my 445Xpro still looks great (though lost ~15% brightness over the years). I could try to play Wii through my computer using the Adaptec GameBridge that I bought (cheap, discontinued), if I can hack USB2 into my 6 year old machine (my last attempt failed). But honestly, the cost per use on a monitor makes the purchase a no brainer. The 445Xpro cost $800 and lasted 8 years, so make the $1000 2707 last ten years. Buy the best and stick with it; quality not quantity. Any opinions are welcome. I'm just trying to hash this out. Maybe it's just separation anxiety from the CRT I've used for so long.
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- FireFox31 110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set
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#304276 - 22/11/2007 21:59
Re: 27" LCD; is it worth it?
[Re: FireFox31]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Quote: The 2707 will give me component and composite input for the Wii, and the 1920x1200 resolution to natively view Wii's 1080p. But I'm not sure it's worth it.
The Wii's maximum output is 720x480 (480p). It is not a hidef console, but it does support widescreen for every new game properly. Annoyingly though, it stretches classic games bought through the virtual console. I believe the Dell will let you set 4:3 or 16:9 for the input, but I can't remember how deeply buried this is in the menus.
Quote: so make the $1000 2707 last ten years.
I'm wondering if the LCD will actually last 10 years and still be usable at the end of that. I don't look to Dell for an absolute high quality LCD, since their processes for them have lead to varying degrees of quality over the years. Some are great, some are horrible, and many times both can be found on the same model line. Then there is the backlight. I'd be hesitant to buy an LCD and expect it to last that long without going for an LED backlit model. The best ratings for cathode lit displays tends to be 5-6 years of use, and the brightness will be noticeably dimmer at the end of the time. Since that is continuous use, it could stretch out to 10, but who knows.
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#304277 - 22/11/2007 22:51
Re: 27" LCD; is it worth it?
[Re: FireFox31]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 24/12/2001
Posts: 5528
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Quote: The 2707 will give me component and composite input for the Wii, and the 1920x1200 resolution to natively view Wii's 1080p.
I've got a 2407FPW and the component and composite inputs are okay but not amazing. A proper TV gives a much nicer picture. The picture looks kind of blurry around certain edges. It is the same on my old 2004FPW.
Quote: Maybe 27" would make DVDs look better (or remain hurt by the Pioneer DVDR drive)
Why does the Pioneer DVDR drive hurt it?
Quote: if I can hack USB2 into my 6 year old machine (my last attempt failed).
If it is 6 years old, what video card do you have? Will it drive the LCD at 1920x1200 with a decent frame rate?
Quote: But honestly, the cost per use on a monitor makes the purchase a no brainer. The 445Xpro cost $800 and lasted 8 years, so make the $1000 2707 last ten years.
It isn't $100 per year. The CCFL backlight tubes in a LCD will slowly get dimmer and dimmer the more you use it. Over 10 years I'd expect it to be around half the bright as what you had when it was new. You can get them replaced but it probably won't be worth the time or money by that point.
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#304278 - 22/11/2007 23:37
Re: 27" LCD; is it worth it?
[Re: drakino]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
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Quote: I don't look to Dell for an absolute high quality LCD
I bought 21 of the 1905FP for work and love each one. They have the high quality Samsung panel in them. Ever since, I've read only good things about Dell panels. Reviewers suggest that the 2707 is a Samsung panel, maybe the same one as the Samsung 275T.
Quote: The Wii's maximum output is 720x480 (480p)
You're right, I think the Dell monitors can switch to 4:3 by blocking off the sides of the screen. Thanks for correcting me about the Wii resolution. Still, I'd have 1080 for other applications in the future. Or is there some special requirement for a display to be "high def"??
Quote: Over 10 years I'd expect it to be around half the bright
That's really bad. My CRT is down about 15% brightness; easily fixed by turning up the brightness knob. Reviews said the Samsung version was much brighter, which could be easily turned down. Problem with the Samsung, the same reviewer said its component input was worse than the Dell... and it doesn't look as nice.
Well, I've got 2.5 years on the 1905's at work and they all still look great. tman, how has the brightness on your Dell widescreens faired over the years? Thanks for your input, I remember reading your threads about these panels in the past.
For years, the monitor I've sworn would replace my 445Xpro is the IBM T221, boasting a "QUXGA-W" resolution of 3840×2400 in only 22.2" widescreen, achieved by fusing together two panels, driven by four DVI cables. I fell in love after reading this article. It's 204 pixels per inch is roughly double the (exactly) 100 pixels per inch on my CRT. That would be a worthy "go big or go home" successor to the 445Xpro... if it didn't cost $10,000.
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- FireFox31 110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set
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#304279 - 22/11/2007 23:42
Re: 27" LCD; is it worth it?
[Re: FireFox31]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
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Quote: A proper TV gives a much nicer picture.
That's a thought, but I don't watch TV. Still, it would be good for Wii and watching DVDs, but I don't really have a place for a TV; my house is in a perpetual state of renovation...
Quote: Will it drive the LCD at 1920x1200 with a decent frame rate?
I have a similarly 6 year old GeForce 2 GTS (no longer supported by Detonator drivers) 64 meg 15pin video card. It drives 1600x1200 at 85Hz for my CRT just fine. Might do 1920x1200 at 60Hz. When you say "frame rate", do you mean "refresh rate"? Regardless, I plan to build a new powerful computer very soon (since Portal finally came out, I will finally get the Orange Box and play it and all the Half Life 2's). I won't skimp on a video card; that machine needs to last another 6 years (at least).
Quote: Why does the Pioneer DVDR drive hurt it?
I suspect the quality of the DVD drive may effect picture quality. More likely, however, the quality of the DVD software and my computers display hardware/drivers. I recently watched Lord of the Rings (again) and tried to use VLC Media Player. It must use some kind of burst buffering because the motion was very jerky, corresponding with the slowly flashing DVD drive light. Using my old copy of WinDVD 3, the drive reads occurred more quickly causing video to be more smooth. But still, action looked blurry. Also of note, I noticed ghosting of light objects in dark scenes (ie: Mines of Moriea); maybe the CRT's fault?
_________________________
- FireFox31 110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set
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#304280 - 23/11/2007 02:04
Re: 27" LCD; is it worth it?
[Re: FireFox31]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14491
Loc: Canada
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Pick up a nice $200 22" LCD and use the leftover cash for more travel abroad! Come on, you deserve it!
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#304281 - 23/11/2007 14:20
Re: 27" LCD; is it worth it?
[Re: mlord]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
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You're suggestion has allready been considered. Still, I need the 1200+ pixel height, or this upgrade would be a downgrade. I'm already saving up for the next meet. Maybe visit Italy or Sweden (go Volvo!!) while I'm there.
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- FireFox31 110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set
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#304282 - 23/11/2007 14:52
Re: 27" LCD; is it worth it?
[Re: FireFox31]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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Yeah, but do you need widescreen? If not, then get a 4:3 1600x1200 panel. Newegg has a Samsung one for $310.
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Bitt Faulk
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#304283 - 23/11/2007 15:04
Re: 27" LCD; is it worth it?
[Re: FireFox31]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14491
Loc: Canada
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Well, if your hope was to live for 8-10 years with the new purchase, that means that you are willing to spend 6-8 years with lower-than-bleeding-edge size/resolution (because in 2 years time better gear will be available for the same price). And the screen will definitely be dimmer for the latter half of its full lifetime.
So.. the plan I would suggest, is to step down one tier in size, resolution and price. Buy the best you can find at half the price of the 27" monitor, and plan to replace it 2-3 years later with the same strategy again.
Your overall cost will be less, and you'll always have a nice bright screen, and more cash in hand.
Cheers
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#304285 - 23/11/2007 20:48
Re: 27" LCD; is it worth it?
[Re: mlord]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
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Quote: spend 6-8 years with lower-than-bleeding-edge size/resolution
That's what I'm stumped on. My CRT gave me 1600x1200 for 8 years and it's only now being surpassed by 30" LCDs. But, that's considering resolution only. It's got ancient connectivity (15 pin and 5xBNC input), bulk (~80 lbs, 1.5' deep), etc.
Maybe display technology comes in waves. CRTs got bigger until being replaced by small LCDs, which got bigger and will be replaced by a small something else (plasma? projectors? folding LCDs?). So, I could make a long-term purchase of the best viewing experience and deal with slipping behind the peripheral technology advances (connectivity, size, etc).
But no, I don't need widescreen. But it would improve DVD viewing (I always watch widescreen versions), supplement Wii, and maybe I'd grow into the extra computing real estate.
I've got to keep mulling this over. Thanks for the input guys.
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- FireFox31 110gig MKIIa (30+80), Eutronix lights, 32 meg stacked RAM, Filener orange gel lens, Greenlights Lit Buttons green set
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#304286 - 23/11/2007 23:15
Re: 27" LCD; is it worth it?
[Re: FireFox31]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 25/12/2000
Posts: 16706
Loc: Raleigh, NC US
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You can also get a 24" widescreen display with 1920x1200 native resolution for far less than $1000. The picture will be 11¾" tall, which is probably about the height of your current 21" CRT's picture, and it will be just under 21" wide. So it'll still be an upgrade in both 2D picture size and in resolution, but it won't break the bank.
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Bitt Faulk
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#304287 - 24/11/2007 00:51
Re: 27" LCD; is it worth it?
[Re: wfaulk]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 29/08/2000
Posts: 14491
Loc: Canada
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Quote: You can also get a 24" widescreen display with 1920x1200 native resolution for far less than $1000. The picture will be 11¾" tall, which is probably about the height of your current 21" CRT's picture, and it will be just under 21" wide. So it'll still be an upgrade in both 2D picture size and in resolution, but it won't break the bank.
The picture should be darned close to 12" tall (100dpi), so yeah.. my advice is go for a $400 24" 1920x1200 LCD, rather than double the price for a 27" of the same rez.
EDIT: Link to Dell 24" for $399
OTOH, I've had a 1600x1200 20" LCD for many years now, so the tech has been with us for a while, and just keeps getting better.
Cheers
Edited by mlord (24/11/2007 00:53)
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#304288 - 24/11/2007 01:59
Re: 27" LCD; is it worth it?
[Re: FireFox31]
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carpal tunnel
Registered: 08/06/1999
Posts: 7868
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Quote: Maybe display technology comes in waves. CRTs got bigger until being replaced by small LCDs, which got bigger and will be replaced by a small something else (plasma? projectors? folding LCDs?). So, I could make a long-term purchase of the best viewing experience and deal with slipping behind the peripheral technology advances (connectivity, size, etc).
The next step for computer displays seems to be LCD backlit with LEDs in the short term (this is rolling out in some laptops and desktops monitors now), and OLED will likely be the next actual tech change. OLED displays have been slowly rolling out in small consumer devices, and a 11 inch TV goes on sale in Japan in December. Plasma doesn't work well going to smaller sizes due to the cost not scaling down like it does on LCDs and CRTs, and the same applies to a rear projection desktop display.
Connectivity wise, DVI should be here for a bit, though HDMI is starting to show up on more and more monitors and computers. Converting between them is easy enough, so even if you get a future video card with HDMI out, hooking it to the LCD will be as easy as a quick trip to monoprice.com . Displayport is being talked about for computers, but until it actually shows up in more then a handful of shipping products, it's nothing to think much of.
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#304289 - 24/11/2007 04:38
Re: 27" LCD; is it worth it?
[Re: drakino]
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pooh-bah
Registered: 19/09/2002
Posts: 2494
Loc: East Coast, USA
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Everything is pointing to the 2707WFP (or I simply can't be convinced to be practical). I couldn't do the Dell E248WFP because it doesn't have the component/composite inputs needed for Wii; the main reason for the upgrade. The 2407WFP is nice, I've used one at work, but the display gains only width over my current 12" tall viewable CRT. But portrait rotating that beast is SO cool. So I'll spring the extra $375 for the 2707WFP. It gives me component input, 1200 pixel height, bigger pixels which should be easier on my eyes, and widescreen for DVD viewing. So it will be replaced by OLED backlit panels, but won't they debut at 15" and take years to cost-effectively reach the 1200 pixel height? And my current 21" CRT won't go to waste. It will replace my sister's sad sad 15" CRT, the only thing which fits her ~20 year old desk which once held a Tandy 3000HL. An hour with the Sawzall should fix that restriction. Thanks again for trying to talk some sense into me. I'll still give a second look for a 4:3 panel of comparable size. PS, did you ever notice that the 3rd and 4th numbers in the Dell monitors are the year in which they were released. 1905 = 2005, 2407 = 2007. Perhaps the 8 in E248 is for 2008?
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